Interview with Jaan Rääts: Composers Union and Honoured Artist of the Estonian SSR (1978) Arvo Pärt emigration 1980 from Soviet Union. Previously unpublished interview.
Was Arvo Pärt a very troublesome person for the Soviet Union?
It's very difficult to comment on that, because he didn't engage in politics, he didn't engage in any kind of dissidence. He was not involved in anything that would have offended anyone.
Was Arvo Pärt a despised composer in Soviet Union?
I can't imagine that anyone would have despised him. He was a highly respected composer and was played quite often, both here and elsewhere, in every way. So that's not true in any way.
Was the great composer Arvo Pärt driven out of Estonia?
I don't think anyone was expelled from the Soviet Union back then. At that time, everything was done to make sure that no one would leave or stay there in their own free will. If someone stayed abroad with their own free will, there was lot of trouble.But Arvo Pärt somehow left so quietly and without any fuss on this side.
How did you find out he was leaving the Soviet Union?
I didn't know that he was going to leave, but the fact that he was going to leave, of course I found out, everybody found out.I found out after he had already left. I knew nothing about his intentions before. And I didn't know anything about the way in which they were preparing for his coming. It is possible that they had a different idea than we have here.Almost every night we went to the Kuku club for an evening meal together and there would have been plenty of opportunities for him to imply, or in some way, nothing. Didn't come up with it at all.
Why do you think he didn't say it, why did he hide it?
I don't know the background, what kind of groundwork somebody might have done.But why he couldn't. It was easy for him, because his wife was Jewish and so why couldn't he go who is Jewish or connected to Jews.I didn't know these things at the time, somebody has now found out this wisdom later. After all, all sorts of secrets and files have now been opened up all over the former Soviet Union.
In any case, his departure was not as troblesome here as it was for those who otherwise just stayed abroad.In the case of Rein Rannap, for example, there was a great deal of trouble, he was accused of terrible things.I remember I was on the district committee and I was also called out myself. And I, of course, defended Rein there, it wasn't easy for him. But Rein is a very pleasant person and still is. I tried to defend him and even resented it at the time.But no what that district commissariat didn't shake me, the partisan punishment was resentment.
You're a Jew too, but why didn't you leave the Soviet Union?
But I just didn't want to. I didn't have that intention.
Soon Arvo Pärt was also advised to leave the Union of Composers. In a small, awkward meeting in the corridor, he was advised to voluntarily resign.
I don't know where in the corridor this might have taken place and I certainly wasn't there.Why did you have to say it to him in the corridor, if anyone had wanted to say such nonsense to him.But it needs to be emphasised at every turn, to justify the fact that like he was forced to leave the Soviet Union.Now they are looking for reasons why. But it's all such journalistic bubble, which should not be taken seriously.No, he was certainly not chased away by anyone.
I wonder why he claims that?
I don't know, it's up to the journalist's conscience why he says so.
In February 1979 Arvo Pärt gave a speech at the 11th Congress of the Union of Composers of the USSR. On his way to the congress, the composer, wearing a wig grabbed from Tallinnfilm, "thanked" the government and the party for the two honours bestowed on him. The speech only confirmed Pärt's persona non grata image. Party officials became increasingly hostile towards him, and it was made clear that they would have no objection to him and his wife leaving the Soviet Union.
I don't know who gave him the message, but persona non grata he was not, of course. He was a highly respected person, he wrote music, the music was very good, it could be played, it was played. And he had all the opportunities here, like all composers.
By decision of the Composers' Union of 12 November 1979, Arvo Pärt was expelled from the Composers' Union for betraying his homeland.
The only thing I remember afterwards was an exchange with Moscow. Moscow kept phoning the Union of Composers and demanding that the board of directors meet and decide to expel him from the Composers Union. We still hadn't done that.He had already left.And I don't remember exactly how we discussed it and what anybody said. We were all, Arvo, myself, Tormis and a others, good friends all. Besides, we were housemates with Arvo. So we didn't quarrel with each other to any extent.And there was no way I would have wanted him to leave.
Were you at the premiere of Tabula Rasa. Was the KGB also present?
I don't know, maybe they were somewhere in the street (laughs) I don't know if they were in the hall. How do I know who was KGB and who was not. Maybe there were some, but not in any way to exclude or ban or make it worse.
Pärt was already struggling to make a living at the time and the popularity of his works in the West didn't make things any better.
I don't think so. Pärt was getting paid exactly as much money for his works as others were. So as much as he wrote, as much as he earned.And he didn't have it any harder than anyone else.
What was your relationship like with him until he emigrated?
Perfectly friendly. Arvo Pärt and I used to go to the Kuku Club all the time, there was a kind of diner in the basement, where people of culture went together in the evenings and of course during the day. And we often went there with Arvo. Once I remember Arvo and I even went to the Palace Hotel for lunch. I know that the next day I had to take a plane to Moscow and the tours started there in those countries. And then we ate and everything was very peaceful.
When Neeme Järvi and Arvo Pärt had left the Soviet Union, how did you reinstate their awards?
I didn't reinstate any prizes, it wasn't in my power. But I restored their honours. People's Artist Neeme Järvi. Honoured Artist of the Estonian SSR Arvo Pärt. I reinstated them, of course. Thanks, of course, to the support of the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet at the time.
It's very difficult to comment on that, because he didn't engage in politics, he didn't engage in any kind of dissidence. He was not involved in anything that would have offended anyone.
Was Arvo Pärt a despised composer in Soviet Union?
I can't imagine that anyone would have despised him. He was a highly respected composer and was played quite often, both here and elsewhere, in every way. So that's not true in any way.
Was the great composer Arvo Pärt driven out of Estonia?
I don't think anyone was expelled from the Soviet Union back then. At that time, everything was done to make sure that no one would leave or stay there in their own free will. If someone stayed abroad with their own free will, there was lot of trouble.But Arvo Pärt somehow left so quietly and without any fuss on this side.
How did you find out he was leaving the Soviet Union?
I didn't know that he was going to leave, but the fact that he was going to leave, of course I found out, everybody found out.I found out after he had already left. I knew nothing about his intentions before. And I didn't know anything about the way in which they were preparing for his coming. It is possible that they had a different idea than we have here.Almost every night we went to the Kuku club for an evening meal together and there would have been plenty of opportunities for him to imply, or in some way, nothing. Didn't come up with it at all.
Why do you think he didn't say it, why did he hide it?
I don't know the background, what kind of groundwork somebody might have done.But why he couldn't. It was easy for him, because his wife was Jewish and so why couldn't he go who is Jewish or connected to Jews.I didn't know these things at the time, somebody has now found out this wisdom later. After all, all sorts of secrets and files have now been opened up all over the former Soviet Union.
In any case, his departure was not as troblesome here as it was for those who otherwise just stayed abroad.In the case of Rein Rannap, for example, there was a great deal of trouble, he was accused of terrible things.I remember I was on the district committee and I was also called out myself. And I, of course, defended Rein there, it wasn't easy for him. But Rein is a very pleasant person and still is. I tried to defend him and even resented it at the time.But no what that district commissariat didn't shake me, the partisan punishment was resentment.
You're a Jew too, but why didn't you leave the Soviet Union?
But I just didn't want to. I didn't have that intention.
Soon Arvo Pärt was also advised to leave the Union of Composers. In a small, awkward meeting in the corridor, he was advised to voluntarily resign.
I don't know where in the corridor this might have taken place and I certainly wasn't there.Why did you have to say it to him in the corridor, if anyone had wanted to say such nonsense to him.But it needs to be emphasised at every turn, to justify the fact that like he was forced to leave the Soviet Union.Now they are looking for reasons why. But it's all such journalistic bubble, which should not be taken seriously.No, he was certainly not chased away by anyone.
I wonder why he claims that?
I don't know, it's up to the journalist's conscience why he says so.
In February 1979 Arvo Pärt gave a speech at the 11th Congress of the Union of Composers of the USSR. On his way to the congress, the composer, wearing a wig grabbed from Tallinnfilm, "thanked" the government and the party for the two honours bestowed on him. The speech only confirmed Pärt's persona non grata image. Party officials became increasingly hostile towards him, and it was made clear that they would have no objection to him and his wife leaving the Soviet Union.
I don't know who gave him the message, but persona non grata he was not, of course. He was a highly respected person, he wrote music, the music was very good, it could be played, it was played. And he had all the opportunities here, like all composers.
By decision of the Composers' Union of 12 November 1979, Arvo Pärt was expelled from the Composers' Union for betraying his homeland.
The only thing I remember afterwards was an exchange with Moscow. Moscow kept phoning the Union of Composers and demanding that the board of directors meet and decide to expel him from the Composers Union. We still hadn't done that.He had already left.And I don't remember exactly how we discussed it and what anybody said. We were all, Arvo, myself, Tormis and a others, good friends all. Besides, we were housemates with Arvo. So we didn't quarrel with each other to any extent.And there was no way I would have wanted him to leave.
Were you at the premiere of Tabula Rasa. Was the KGB also present?
I don't know, maybe they were somewhere in the street (laughs) I don't know if they were in the hall. How do I know who was KGB and who was not. Maybe there were some, but not in any way to exclude or ban or make it worse.
Pärt was already struggling to make a living at the time and the popularity of his works in the West didn't make things any better.
I don't think so. Pärt was getting paid exactly as much money for his works as others were. So as much as he wrote, as much as he earned.And he didn't have it any harder than anyone else.
What was your relationship like with him until he emigrated?
Perfectly friendly. Arvo Pärt and I used to go to the Kuku Club all the time, there was a kind of diner in the basement, where people of culture went together in the evenings and of course during the day. And we often went there with Arvo. Once I remember Arvo and I even went to the Palace Hotel for lunch. I know that the next day I had to take a plane to Moscow and the tours started there in those countries. And then we ate and everything was very peaceful.
When Neeme Järvi and Arvo Pärt had left the Soviet Union, how did you reinstate their awards?
I didn't reinstate any prizes, it wasn't in my power. But I restored their honours. People's Artist Neeme Järvi. Honoured Artist of the Estonian SSR Arvo Pärt. I reinstated them, of course. Thanks, of course, to the support of the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet at the time.